Ali 2: Full Interview

TRANSCRIPT

Ali
Interview by Ray Larman
3rd April 2019

RL: This is Ray Larman recording for West Yorkshire Queer Stories. It is 3rd of April 2019, and I’m here with Ali, who’s going to introduce himself.

A: My name is Ali.

RL: Say your date of birth.

A: My date of birth is…

RL: You can just say your age if you like.

A: I’m 21.

RL: And how do you identify, Ali?

A: I identify as a gay Muslim man.

RL: Okay, so, could you tell me a bit about when you realised you were gay?

A: I realised when I was very young, so around five or six, is when I first realised I was gay. I was more into pink coloured things and Barbies and wearing dresses and getting make-up done on my face. So that was when I was around five and six, and my family kind of realised that, y’know, he shouldn’t be doing stuff like this, but they never had an open problem with it, so it was never something that was really established in the household. It’s only when I hit around 10 or 11, when I transitioned into secondary school, that I realised that I can’t get away with liking pink or acting a bit feminine, especially going to a school in a heavily dominated South Asian community, a South Asian school, it was gonna be really, really difficult to be as, if you like, gay as I was. When I grew up being called ‘the gay boy’ at home, but it was, I just took it as a light joke.

And I think towards, I’d say mid-secondary school, my understanding of being gay was very negative. I think my friends around me, again, being really traditional South Asian men – boys at the time, and being strong Muslims, I kind of I swayed towards what they believed was right and wrong, and homosexuality for them was just at no way possible. I think towards Year 11 I became quite homophobic, quite homophobic and I didn’t like – at the time I didn’t approve of gay people. Any gay students that we had in our year would get bullied and I’d contribute towards that bullying. So, it’d be name-calling, hitting them, teasing them, just general bullying, but I think that was a coping mechanism for me, cos I was suppressing my sexuality and I took it out on those that were able to identify as being gay.

And I’d see it as a punishment from God – at the time I was quite a strict Muslim, so I saw it as a punishment, my sexuality, and I thought it was something that I need to hold back and not speak about or even consider being what I am. So, it was from literally, I’d say Year 9 to first year of college, it was – so we’re talking about four, five years – it was constant crying myself to sleep every night, and turning to praying and reading the Qur’an as an escape to my sexuality. I’d – I hate to say it now – I saw anything that wasn’t straight as disgusting, even though I was gay, and I couldn’t admit to myself that I was gay, at all, I just shut it out, I thought it’s perverted; I saw it as disgusting, unnatural, not acceptable, and I thought God would never ever make someone this way if it wasn’t meant to be [unclear].

And then I met my partner, in third year of uni, and it was funny because our discussions were, like for example, gay marriage, and he was openly gay, and when he asked for my opinion on it, my opinion was ‘urgh no, marriage is for man and woman’ – and this is only a couple of years ago – so it was, ‘a man and a woman should be married, not a man and a man, and marriage isn’t for a woman and a woman’. So my – I’d say my cultural identity and my religious identity conflicted with my sexual orientation so much so that I was forcing myself to believe that non-heteronormative sexualities or anything else that weren’t conforming to heteronormativity was out of the question.

RL: So how were those sort of ideas that you had, how were they reinforced, or who was reinforcing them?

A: I’d say the biggest – the biggest person that was reinforcing it would be myself. I was so scared to even appear gay or feminine that I would try my hardest to be what was considered to be straight. I wasn’t able to wear ripped jeans or tight jeans or anything like that, and I think, what was reinforcing it was myself, just trying to avoid seeming gay. So much so that, I’d, you know, cause issues in my head from it – and what was the part, first part of your question, sorry?

RL: Just who, these ideas that you had, sort of, who was reinforcing them, what was reinforcing them?

A: I think it would be – what reinforced it was the thought that anyone could find out that I was gay. So, as an attempt to stop that from happening, I went to the opposite of the spectrum and tried to appear as straight as I could be.

RL: Were you aware of other people who were gay who were kind of being almost like punished for it?

AL: Yes. During secondary time. So, I remember like it was yesterday, there was a Muslim boy who was quite feminine, but he never openly said he was gay, and I used to bully him to the point where he wouldn’t want to come to school. But I look back on it now and I think, I was bullying someone that was almost comfortable with their identity, and I saw it as a coping mechanism, and I look back on it and I regret it so much.

RL: Where was your school and your college? Was that around here?

A: No, it was in London.

RL: So, we were talking earlier about coming out and things, and you were saying that you weren’t out, so like at the moment, so could you say a little bit about that?

A: I’d say my perception of… homosexuality has changed. It’s no longer seen as a perversion or disgusting or anything like that; I’ve slowly accepted what I am, if that makes sense. I mean, I have some days which, where I go back to considering homosexuality as a perversion, but living with my partner now I feel like I’ve accepted and starting to consider it as a norm.

RL: So, it must’ve been a really big move then, living with your partner?

A: It was a big move. It was a huge stepping-stone for me. Cos I went from seeing gays and same sex relationships as being disgusting to being in one myself and having some sort of happiness. So, it was a big contrast to before.

RL: So, so are you kind of out to some people but not to other people, is that how it works?

A: So, I’m out to, obviously my partner, to his family, and to some of his friends. I’m not out to anyone that I personally know. Not to no family, friends – I couldn’t think of anything worse than to come out with them, to come out to them.

RL: What sort of a reaction do you think you would get?

A: [sigh] I mean, I think there’s two sides; I think they’d either won’t be surprised about my sexuality, cos obviously I’ve told you how I was when I was little, so there’s that. But then I feel like it would be an apostasy and it wouldn’t be accepted at all, so they’d either… they’d kick me out of the family and have nothing to do with me. But then I also read stuff like’ honour killings’ and stuff like that, and I think that put a lot of fear into my head and, you hear lots of stories about people coming out or being found out about and it just resulted in either physical or emotional abuse or even, to some extent, ‘honour killings’.

RL: Is your partner the same background as you?

A: No.

RL: So, does that make things easier?

A: Yeah, I think that’s why – coming away from that traditional, backwards, very religious surrounding and coming to such an accepting and open surrounding just almost morphed my opinions. I think that’s what helped with dealing with my own sexuality and owning being gay.

RL: Are you now in Leeds?

A: Yes.

RL: So, what is it like being a gay Muslim in Leeds?

A: [laughs] I’m wearing ripped jeans [laughs] I’m hoping that says a lot. I think it’s amazing so far. I mean, you’ve got people who accept you for what you – people who don’t even consider your sexuality as being important or any different to straight people, or even relevant – they don’t see sexuality as being relevant, which I think is amazing because… you’re no longer identified by your sexuality, in a good way. You’re identified by who you are and what you offer and your inside, what your heart holds, not what you, what you’re attracted to. And then I see groups like this that I’m so amazed at, cos I’ve gone so, from step one to step ten, and so it’s amazing to see people actually be comfortable to come out to their families and still feel loved and accepted for what they are.

RL: Could you say a little bit about the group?

A: So, for me that was the first ever time that I’ve sat in a room full of South Asian – or even white – men that are able to talk about their sexuality without it being a taboo or without it being disgusting. And for me it was a different world. It was – it made me feel as though being gay was okay. And I think that, it’s something that everyone deserves.

RL: And the group is called Hidayah?

A: Yeah.

RL: Hidayah, yeah. Do you go out in Leeds, cos you know, there’s quite a big gay scene in Leeds – is that something that you would go to?

A: Yes. So… I prefer… I’m quite easy going, so I would… whether gay club, straight club, it doesn’t bother me. But I would happily go, when I was in London, it was very, very restricted, I wouldn’t be able to go out to gay clubs, or I wouldn’t be able to go out in general, really, without fearing that someone’s gonna see me or… yeah.

RL: D’you want to leave it there? I know you need to go.

A: I reckon another five minutes should be alright, let me just reply back to his message. Sorry.

RL: Can you tell me a little bit about what you do in the Hidayah group?

A: So, the group from what I’ve experienced so far is a chance to discuss your experiences and get – and gather other people’s experiences on their coming out stories, or their perception of sexuality. And when you start speaking to other people about a similar situation and how they deal with it or their perception of it, you learn to understand that, actually, what I am isn’t disgusting, or what I am is acceptable, and it is normal. And I think that, for me that was just unimaginable, to go from, like I said, to go from thinking my sexuality’s disgusting to sitting there talking about it and seeing it as a norm was a huge milestone for me. And groups like this, like Hidayah, they offer you to sit in a room safely, knowing that you’re not, your personal details or anything like that, isn’t gonna leave the room, or you’re not in no harm, it’s almost like safe haven, where you can sit there and discuss your experiences and how you feel about things and actually – I feel like the more you listen to other people the more you figure yourself out and the more you learn to accept yourself and that is something that is unimaginable.

RL: Is there anything else you’d like to say?

A: I think that’s fine, yeah.

[END]